White Coats of the Round Table

White Coats of the Round Table

Career Development for Healthcare Professionals. Discussing burnout, career transitions, and nontraditional career paths.

All Episodes

Off-Script: How We Got Here

John and Mike discuss their childhoods and how their career choices were influenced by their parents and personal experiences. They reflect on the importance of work-life balance and finding fulfillment in their respective professions. The conversation highlights the value of personal growth and the need to adapt to unexpected career paths.
March 1, 2024

Student Wellness with Kate Cozart

In this episode, Mike Asbach and John McDonald are joined by Kate Cozart, The Resilient PharmD, to discuss wellness, imposter syndrome, and burnout in medical education. They explore the need for adaptability and openness to change in healthcare education, the importance of psychological safety and compassion in creating optimal learning environments, and the balance between necessary discomfort and unnecessary stress in medical training. They also discuss the concept of deliberate play in medical education and the role of compassion in improving outcomes and promoting student wellness. Find Kate
February 23, 2024

It’s Good to Be Uncomfortable

The conversation explores the balance between necessary discomforts and unnecessary harm in medical training. Mike and John discuss the importance of recognizing the value of difficult tasks and experiences in training, while also acknowledging the need for boundaries and work-life balance. The conversation emphasizes the need for ongoing reform in medical training programs to ensure a balance between excellence and discomfort. Overall, the hosts encourage listeners to engage in thoughtful discussions and advocate for positive change in medical education.
February 16, 2024

The Role of Academia in Healthcare Professions

This episode discusses the role of academia in healthcare professions, and explores the impact of workforce projection and oversupply. There is a need for more diverse and broad training to prepare students for non-traditional career paths as the role of healthcare professionals in the era of technology is shifting.
February 9, 2024

Networking Strategies

Mike and John discuss the importance of networking in healthcare careers. They cover various networking strategies, including LinkedIn networking, attending conferences and seminars, joining professional associations, and networking within organizations. They emphasize the value of building connections, collaborating on projects, and staying up-to-date in the field.
February 2, 2024

Job Recruiting with Madison Loomis

In this episode, Mike Asbach interviews Madison Loomis, a healthcare recruiter, about maximizing compensation in healthcare and the value of PAs and NPs in the industry. They discuss the idea of job switching and its impact on clinical competence, as well as the importance of having difficult conversations with employers about compensation. Madison emphasizes the need for clinicians to find a boss who values and supports their growth. The conversation highlights the need for healthcare to be more transactional and open about compensation as communication and proactive retention are essential for career growth.
January 26, 2024

Off-Script: Personal Branding

John and Mike discuss the impact social media can have on personal and professional life and the importance of being mindful of the content shared on personal social media accounts, as personal branding can be crucial in the healthcare industry. Maintaining a professional online presence, especially on platforms like LinkedIn, is essential. Our Website
January 19, 2024

The Opportunity Cost of Healthcare Careers with Tracy Bingaman

Mike and John are joined by Tracy Bingaman, a thought leader on burnout, boundaries, financial freedom, and negotiation in the healthcare industry. They discuss the concept of opportunity cost in healthcare and the trade-offs that come with pursuing a career in the field. They also explore the impact of burnout on healthcare professionals and how financial planning can help mitigate career risks, and Tracy shares her personal experience of quitting her job in the middle of the pandemic and the importance of having an emergency fund. Our Website Tracy's Website The PA Is In
January 12, 2024

Off-Script: Reflections and Resolutions

Mike and John discuss their New Year's resolutions and career goals for 2024. They reflect on the importance of taking breaks and stepping away from work to maintain passion and prevent burnout. The conversation covers topics such as exercise, reading, focus, consolidation, and publishing. They emphasize the value of planning, setting goals, and finding balance in personal and professional life. Our Website
January 5, 2024

Off-Script: Thanksgiving

In today's episode Mike and John review what they are thankful for this year. Our Website
November 24, 2023

Accounting for the Entrepreneur with Nick Krop

Nick Krop (@nickthecpa) walks John through the different business structures available and the which may be most appropriate for the entrepreneur. Should I use a C-Corp or S-Corp? How much can I write off on my taxes? Find Nick Our Website
November 17, 2023

Retirement Investing with Caleb Pepperday

Joined buy financial guest Caleb Pepperday, Mike explores investment options and money management. Is it better to pour into your company 401k or keep liquid in the market? And what is active investing?  Our Website Find Caleb Advanced Practice Planning
November 10, 2023

From MSL to Recruiter with Sarah Snyder

Sarah joins Mike and John to talk about moving through different medical roles and the time and dedication that those transitions take. Moving from large pharma to industry to MSL, she's experienced a wide array of non-clinical careers and shares her knowledge on possible barriers to entry or missed opportunities to becoming an MSL. Our Website Find Sarah
November 3, 2023

Off-Script: Practicing Entrepreneurial Brainstorming

Mike and John have a brainstorming session for entrepreneurial ideas, both reasonable and ridiculous. Test your creativity and ingenuity by challenging yourself to come up with business ideas. Where do you see a need, or what specialized knowledge can you leverage? Our Website
October 27, 2023

The Importance of the Third Place

The Third Place: socialization outside of work and home. Mike and John discuss the role of a third place both in mental health and burnout prevention and within the workplace as a career asset. This space establishes and strengthens relationships in and outside of the workplace, provides networking outside of hierarchical settings, and enables relaxation in a non-monetized environment. Our Website
October 20, 2023

When Hustle Leads to Overextension

Mike and John reflect on times where they have overscheduled, overcommitted, and overworked. Sometimes, life happens. When you schedule yourself with a thin margin, you have less room to adapt to the unexpected. It's important to take these moments of overextension to reflect on how to improve going forward and double check that the things we bring into our lives are adding value both personally and professionally. Our Website
October 13, 2023

Intro to Financial Advisors with Caleb Pepperday

Caleb Pepperday takes Mike through the different types of financial advisors and the ways in which each makes money. Some work on commission, are fee only, or even charge by consultation. Finding the right financial advisor for you often involves finding one who understands your profession. Financial advice changes as the economic climate changes and advise from five years ago may not be relevant today. Our Website Find Caleb Advanced Practice Planning
October 6, 2023

Why You Shouldn’t Give 100%

John and Mike walk through a news article discussing the dangers of asking for 100% effort on a consistent basis. It increases the risk of burnout and overall leads to lower performance. Healthcare can feel like every task is an emergency and has to be done ASAP, but learning to prioritize balance leads to greater outcomes long term. Our Website
September 29, 2023

Our Role in Precepting

As the internet and AI continue to progress and change the role of healthcare professionals, it's important to evaluate how we precept, checking the skills you teach are ones that will stay relevant. Soft skills are becoming ever more valuable as the accessibility to knowledge grows. This means setting goals and expectations for your students, and having those tough conversations when students fall short. Our Website
September 22, 2023

Taking a Sabbatical From Healthcare with Shayne Foley

Sometimes it's good to take a step back. Structuring breaks into your career allows for time with family, friends, pursuing other interests, and can help avoid burnout over in the long run. These times of extended leave also bring the opportunity for a job change and prompt a reevaluation of your current career. But besides all that, they're a lot of fun. Our Website Find Shayne The PA Blueprint
September 15, 2023

Off-Script: Does Money Buy Happiness?

Would you take your dream job if it meant making half of your current salary? While money may not buy happiness, a lack of money can cause great stress and inconvenience. Mike and John talk about how they navigate compensation and its relationship to contentment. Our Website
September 8, 2023

Mental Health in Healthcare with Moira Antalek

Mike and John are joined by Moira Antalek as she precepts with Mike. Moira provides an overview of her recent research into the differences between burnout and depression/anxiety in healthcare workers specifically, and the added difficulties they may experience in seeking support. Our Website Sponsored by: ThriveAP
September 1, 2023

Off-Script: What Would you Change About Healthcare?

If you could change one thing about the healthcare system in the United States, what would that be? Mike and John disagree about what parts off the healthcare system are broken and debate their perspective from different fields of practice.  Our Website Sponsored by: ThriveAP
August 25, 2023

Pivoting to your Dream Job with Jamie Wilkey

Jamie tells us about her journey of leaving retail pharmacy and searching for something she likes doing instead of just what's available. Through trial and error, she found fulfilment in pharmacogenomics and medical writing. Be scrappy and be brave! Find Jamie Our Website Sponsored By: ThriveAP
August 18, 2023

Off-Script: Does Further Education Really Pay Off?

Mike and John discuss if it is worthwhile to go back to school. Terminal degrees often gain respect and an presumption of expertise and therefore may not see monetary benefits by pursuing further education such as an MBA, but someone with a masters may see a return on their investment in further education. Our Website Sponsored by: ThriveAP
August 11, 2023

Off-Script: No Deathbed Regrets

"If I were to die tomorrow, would I have regrets in terms of the amount of time I've spent on my career? Would I have wished that I had done things differently? Would I have wished that I maybe had been more impactful?" Our Website Sponsored by: ThriveAP
August 4, 2023

Advocating for your Practice with Karl Williams

Mike and John are joined by professor Karl Williams to discuss the value of advocating for your profession. Improvements in protocols and access to care can require governmental changes to take place, often at the intervention of practitioners and professional organizations. Sponsored by: ThriveAP
July 28, 2023

Off-Script: A Day in the Life

Take a peek behind the scenes as Mike walks through a day in his life. Hear how he schedules his day, organizes his tasks, and meets his deadlines while still prioritizing being home for dinner. Between consulting, seeing patients, hosting a podcast, and industry speaking, it is vital to work with intentionality to avoid burnout. Sponsored by: ThriveAP
July 22, 2023

The Power of Conference Speaking with Harrison Reed

Mike and Harrison Reed discuss ways to build your CV and your network through submitting abstracts to conferences. This can be a great way to ease into medical writing and establish yourself as a key opinion leader. For a small upfront investment, being selected to speak at a conference can have large career payoffs. Harrison's Website Sponsored by: ThriveAP
July 14, 2023

Off-Script: How to Move into Speaking

On this unedited episode from the vault, Mike and John discuss how they build out their CV to transition to non-clinical roles and how to get nominated for a speaking event. Our Website Sponsored by: ThriveAP
July 7, 2023

Negotiating at the Interview

Mike and John continue their conversation about interview questions and preparation, touching on topics such as salary and benefits as well as conveying enthusiasm without appearing obnoxious. Our Website Sponsored by: ThriveAP
June 30, 2023

Impressing at the Interview

John and Mike go over their interview stories and experiences, both good and bad. From what questions to ask to how you should dress, they offer advice from their experiences as both interviewer and interviewee. Our Website Sponsored by ThriveAP
June 23, 2023

Preparing for an Interview

From researching the company to practicing our elevator pitch for a dreaded question, Mike and John go over their personal experience preparing for an interview, as well as the perspective as interviewer. John gives his opinion on tattoos while Mike tries to answer questions on the fly using the STAR method. Our Website Sponsored by: ThriveAP
June 16, 2023

Off-Script: Should You Be Looking at Jobs While Happily Employed?

Mike and John discuss if you should be seeking and applying to jobs while happily employed. Is it worthwhile to keep a pulse on the job market? In most careers there is financial benefit to job transitions every few years, but does that apply to healthcare? Sponsored by ThriveAP Our Website
June 9, 2023

Transitioning to Practice with Veronica Hill from ThriveAP

Mike and John are joined by Veronica Hill, the Vice President of Clinical Operations at ThriveAP, a resource for developing transition to practice programs focusing on skill application. Veronica has been practicing medicine for over 15 years and now speaks on internal medicine topics in addition to heading the programs and operations at ThriveAP.
June 2, 2023

Writing and Formatting a Cover Letter

Mike and John go over examples of good vs great cover letters and discuss the differences between the two. John also talks about the different styles of cover letter and the appropriate positions to utilize less common styles, such as a more creative or story telling letter for a writing focused job.
May 26, 2023

Writing a Modern and Professional Resume

We're all taught how to write a resume in college, but maybe not how to incorporate key words for an online submission. Mike and John tell when to include your contact information in the header, how to organize your work experience in the body of a CV, and the importance of a summery. Fresh out of college or ready for a change, this episode gives a detailed walk-through of keeping and creating an impressive resume. Our Website
May 19, 2023

Off-Script: Should You Choose a Stable Job in Healthcare or a Less Stable Job with More Upside?

John and Mike discuss the pros and cons of choosing a stable job in healthcare with limited upside (usually a clinical role) or a job that is less stable but has much higher upside or upward mobility (usually a non-clinical role). They cover topics such as: the importance of job security, the potential for financial rewards, the level of satisfaction with your work, and the impact on your personal life.
May 12, 2023

Off-Script: Meditation to Fight Healthcare Burnout

In this solo episode, John talks about how he got started in his meditation practices. Walking us through different guides, breathing techniques, and circumstances, he illustrates the role meditation has taken in his work life.
May 5, 2023

Entrepreneurship in Healthcare with Nook Chen

John talks with Nook Chen about his journey starting the company nooksle. Through his experience in Pharmacy, Nook was driven to find opportunities for innovation. While still in school, he was able to leverage available business programs and networking with peers to drive word of mouth marketing.
April 28, 2023

Medical Writing with Hassan Thwaini

Mike talks with Hassan Thwaini about how his transition from clinical pharmacy to medical writing and where that journey has lead him. Hassan is the co-founder of Write Clinic, an education platform for healthcare professionals looked to turn to medical writing as an alternative career.
April 21, 2023

Leadership in Healthcare

Growing and developing your career doesn't have to mean leaving the clinical behind. Mike talks about ways to develop and grow your career as a clinician by seeking leadership opportunities through networking or local organizations: teaching, precepting, participating in a professional organization.
April 14, 2023

From Healthcare to Health Writing with Megan Freeland

Megan Freeland joins Mike and John to discuss her career in medical writing. Having gone to school for pharmacy with an interest in public health, Megan was able to pivot into a career as a medical writer and now works to provide resources for those interested in a similar path. They discuss the roll of AI in writing, where to find foundational writing resources, and how to maximize your current writing opportunities through networking.  Megan's Youtube: Health Writing for Health Professionals American Medical Writers Association On Writing Well by William Zinsser
April 7, 2023

Off-Script: Is Career Coaching Worth It?

John and Mike discuss whether career coaching is a worthwhile investment for healthcare professionals. Our Website
March 31, 2023

Why We Need Peer-to-Peer Networking in Healthcare

Peer-to-peer networking is an essential part of career advancement and support in the healthcare industry. It provides a valuable opportunity for healthcare professionals to connect with others, share knowledge, and gain new perspectives. We encourage healthcare professionals to take advantage of networking opportunities and share their experiences with others. Our Website
March 24, 2023

Off-Script: What Could You Change?

What could you change in your career TODAY that would positively change your situation? Mike and John talk go through some opportunities for change they see in their own work situations, such as being more intentional to not over extend or focusing and developing the areas of their career that bring more joy and growth.  Our Website
March 17, 2023

Outdoor Recreation for Mental Health and Burnout

Hiking, kayaking, pickle ball, climbing, geocaching. Mike and John discuss their favorite outdoor activities and the ways they plug into community to take a break from the grind. They discuss the effects of goal-oriented recreation and how it differs from relaxation in its efficacy to combat burnout.  Our Website
March 10, 2023

Off-Script: Why Did You Get into Healthcare?

In this Off-Script, Mike and John sit down to have an unedited, informal talk about their early healthcare experiences. They discuss how they began looking into healthcare as a field of study, narrowing down their area of focus, and what their careers look like now in comparison to their school-age expectations.  Our Website
March 3, 2023

Tips from a Recruiter with Tom Caravela from MSL Talk

Tom Caravela is an MSL recruiter and the founder of The Carolan Group, a Medical Affairs Executive Search and Recruitment firm. He is also the host of the podcast MSL Talk which features topics for both existing MSL as well as those seeking to break into the industry. Today he discusses with Mike and John how he became an MSL recruiter, including his non-clinical background, and the mental strength involved in a high-output lifestyle.   Our Website  Books Mentioned  -75 Hard: A Tactical Guide to Winning the War with Yourself by Andy Frisella  -The Power of One More: The Ultimate Guide to Happiness and Success by Ed Mylett  -Uncommon Leadership by Ben Newman
February 24, 2023

Reducing Hours to Fight Healthcare Burnout

Whether by choice or by circumstance, sometimes the answer to burnout is cutting back your hours. Not only does this reduce the stressor, but it also opens up more time to put towards positive outlets. Maybe that means taking a trip, maybe its signing up for a course to take your career in a new direction. If changing jobs isn't appropriate for you, consider taking a look at schedule adjustments.  Patreon Website
February 10, 2023

Pivoting into Health Tech with Lauren Curtis

Lauren Curtis talks about her shift from retail pharmacy to working in the startup PillPack. She also discusses perceived barriers to entry such as coding, taking a pay cut, or possibly being overqualified to make the transition. Find Lauren: LinkedIn Our Website Patreon
January 27, 2023

How to Cope with Trauma in Healthcare

Mike and John talk about how to identify trauma and the negative impact it has in your life. While some coping mechanisms are unhealthy, there are some positive outlets to deal with your experience as well. Being aware of how you navigate the trauma in your life makes it possible to maintain a healthy balance in a trauma heavy environment.  Website Patreon 
January 13, 2023

Holiday Release: Off-Script Precepting

While Mike and John spend the holidays with their families, here is an episode previously exclusive to Patreon members. Filled with funny stories, Mike and John recall their experience as students as well as some highlights of precepting in their career. Patreon  Our Website Youtube 
December 30, 2022

Artificial Intelligence in Healthcare

Mike and John go through the best known applications of AI in healthcare and where they see the field going: taking over clerical work for clinicians, pre-screening patients to maximize the efficiency of a visit, and even creating new medications. Will clinicians be replaced? Our Website Patreon
December 16, 2022

Social Media and Medicine with Dr. Betsy Grunch

Joined by the TikTok star Dr. Betsy Grunch (@ladyspinedoc), Mike and John discuss the role of social media in healthcare. As a tool for networking, education, and even monetization, social media is here to stay. Dr. Grunch talks about how and why she found her way into content creation while balancing a personal life and flourishing practice.  Our Website Patreon Find Dr. Grunch @ladyspinedoc YouTube Linkedin TikTok
December 2, 2022

Non-Clinical Careers in Healthcare

Mike and John go through some of the best alternative careers for clinicians looking for a change. They discuss becoming an MSL, gigging as a medical writer, and even government positions in the medical field.
November 18, 2022

Negotiating Healthcare Contracts with Nick Masino

John and Mike speak with lawyer Nick Masino about the importance of understanding healthcare contracts. They discuss common pitfalls like noncompete clauses, total compensation, and benefits.  show notes available to all on Patreon or our Website
November 4, 2022

Preventing Burnout through Nutrition with Jennifer Harrington

Jennifer Harrington talks about the ways diet can impact your career. It can be tempting to grab comfort foods after a long or frustrating workday, but burnout isn't only a mental battle, its physical too. Set yourself up for success by being intentional with your diet and practice what you preach.
October 21, 2022

Identifying Burnout in Today’s Healthcare Landscape

John and Mike dive deeper into burnout as they talk through the different signifiers and symptoms and how to differentiate acute stress from chronic burnout.
October 7, 2022

Is Burnout New in Healthcare?

John dives deep into the conversation on burnout in the healthcare field. When did it become a mainstream topic? Is this a recent struggle or just recently acknowledged?
September 23, 2022

Public Speaking and Effective Communication in Healthcare with Jeremy Schreiber

Jeremy Schreiber tells his journey towards becoming a better public speaker. Starting in sales and academia, Jeremy transitioned into an industry speaker through hard work and dedication: eliminating verbal crutches, honing body language, and mastering the material. Find Jeremy
September 9, 2022

Advocating for Your Internship with Dan O’Hara

John talks with Dan about how he got, or created, his ideal internships. Dan outlines the times where he didn't wait to be offered an opportunity, but instead created his own. Find Dan:
September 2, 2022

Student Experience with Thomas Michalek

John talks with TJ, a recent graduate, about his experience changing majors in college and interning in healthcare. What ultimately lead to his choice to no longer pursue clinical healthcare but work in administration instead? 
August 26, 2022

Gig Work with Rick Yarosh

Mike talks with Rick Yarosh, co-founder of HeathGigJobs, about his journey starting a gig platform for healthcare professionals. The gigs range from telemedicine and post-op appointments to triaging phone calls for doctors.
August 12, 2022

Industry Consulting

Mike goes over his experience as a pharma speaker: how he got his first booking, how he got a second, and how to avoid conflicts of interest with his day job. Industry consulting is a great way to build relationships and your CV, all the while being a lucrative side hustle. 
July 29, 2022

Career Shifts with Matt Troup

After a decade working in a hospital for the majority of his career, Matt made the switch into healthcare tech. He talks about his transition and how he got the opportunity to work in his current position.
July 15, 2022

Career Burnout with The Happy PharmD

Mike and John hear from Alex Barker of The Happy PharmD about causes of burnout and how to spot the warning signs. They discuss whether burnout is the fault of a company or the individual employee, as well as if some positions in healthcare are doomed to be toxic. When you're at the point of hating your career, what then?
July 1, 2022

Don’t Pay Off School Debt with Frank Randall

An interview with Frank Randall, financial advisor specializing in Advance Practice Providers, highlights some common pitfalls among healthcare professionals and their financial choices. How fast should you pay off school debt? How much should you be saving?
June 17, 2022

Independent Contracting

Independent contractors have greater flexibility and autonomy, but may also lose out on valuable employee protections and benefits. Listen to John and Mike discuss the risks and rewards of independent contracting in healthcare, as well as when to hire a lawyer to straighten things out. 
June 3, 2022

Mistake and Malpractice

Sparked by the RaDonda Vaught verdict, Mike and John discuss how the precedent of criminal prosecution for medical malpractice will affect the field of healthcare. Mistakes often involve multiple system failures. Will the risk of criminal charges discourage the reporting of these small scale errors?
May 20, 2022

Precepting Tips, Tricks, and Horror Stories

Mike and John discuss the benefits of precepting. Is it altruistic, a duty to the medical community? Or are there personal benefits to taking on students as well. Hear about some of their own experiences as students, what they stive for as a good teacher now, and the time John made a student cry. 
May 6, 2022

Continuing Education for the Medical Professional

Mike and John go over common problems with CME, online resources, and share some conference experience. What is the average CME reimbursement? Is it better to do on-demand or live content? 
April 22, 2022

Is Networking Valuable in Healthcare?

Mike and John talk about how and why to network both personally and professionally, which social media they've found to hold value, and the benefits of belonging to professional associations. 
April 13, 2022


Healthcare professionals Mike and John introduce themselves and discuss the beginnings of their new career as podcasters.  Additional Content:
April 8, 2022

About White Coats of the Round Table

A podcast for healthcare professionals by healthcare professionals. Our mission through this project is to create a community for clinicians to learn and discuss all aspects of their career in healthcare.
We welcome all clinicians and medical professionals to use our content to build professional knowledge, and support and grow their careers.